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Beyond The Hype: Interview's With Hamas's Supreme Leader and Fatah
Leader
Interview with Khaled Meshal – Supreme Leader of Hamas
From the 27 January 2006 print version of La Repubblica (Italy)
by Alix Van Buren
“The Super-Most Wanted” Meshal
DAMASCUS—The day of Hamas’ triumph, the supreme leader, Khaled
Meshal, keeps his euphoria in check and weighs his words: “This
is a first step. Yet, other steps are needed before the goal:
the liberation from the occupation”.
It’s not easy to succeed in meeting Meshal (Abu’l Walid, for his
followers). Being a moving target of Israel, he continually
changes his headquarters. In Amman, the Mossad injected poison
behind his ear with an air-compressed syringe. After being
discovered and captured, the Israeli agents were released in
exchange for the antidote. The fact raised an international
crisis.
Now we’re being brought by an armoured, smoke-windowed Mercedes
200 to meet him. Off with the mobile phones, that have been
disassembled and put in a metallic box, off with the bags, off
with the shoes.
Mr. Khaled
Meshal, what does victory taste like?
“You should ask that to the Americans and Israelis, judging by
their dismay before the outcome of the elections. Washington
invokes democracy. Well, the constituency expressed their vote.
Maybe our democracy has a not much welcomed face to the
westerners: however, this is a great day for our nation.”
Is it also for
peace? Israel considers your victory as a catastrophe, the end
of peace process.
“That depends on Israel, not on us. If it is willing to
acknowledge the rights of the Palestinians, to live freely on
their own lands, then peace is at hand. We’re ready. But are
they?”
Mr. Meshal,
are you willing to negotiate?
“Since Madrid and Oslo, accords have lead nowhere. The peace
process is at a deadlock, the Palestinian life quality has
worsened, the fence is moving forward and engulfing further
lands. As to the Road Map, it is unacceptable. It imposes upon
us detailed conditions: the disarmament and the arrest of
mujaheddins, the giving up of resistance. Yet it’s vague as
regards Israel’s duties: it doesn’t say a word about Jerusalem,
the refugees’ fate, the extension of territories to give back”.
Nor does Hamas
make clear about which part of Palestine it means to free.
Please, say it yourself: do you mean to recover historic
Palestine that comprises Israel or only the territories occupied
in 1967?
“I’ll answer you with another question: why does the world ask
the Palestinians to define the borders of its own homeland while
it doesn’t ask the Italians to do the same thing with Italy? I
know very well what is the map of my country.”
So Hamas won’t
acknowledge Israel, will it?
“No, we won’t do it. Israel was born from an aggression, an
occupation of another’s lands.”
Your statute
calls for the destruction of Israel. It was said that, in view
of the elections, you would delete that paragraph written in
1988.
“You westerners are wrong: the statute doesn’t invoke Israel’s
destruction at all. In Arab it is written, “ to put an end to
the Israeli occupation of Palestine”. We don’t want to get rid
of the other, we only wish to attain our rights. So, that
paragraph will remain.”
Would you
accept negotiations through a third party involved, such as
Israel has done in Lebanon with Hezbollah?
“We still haven’t decided. We already are dealing with the
Israelis, as regards municipalities, for practical reasons.
Hamas doesn’t reject talks. It’s Israel’s philosophy that
impedes us from negotiating. So, there’s nothing left for us but
resistance”.
America,
Europe and Israel ask you to put down your arms. Will you agree?
“Obviously not, as long as most of the territory is under
occupation. Only force has produced some result, the Israeli
withdrawal from Gaza.”
Yet, you have
negotiated a truce.
“It’s true, and we have respected it whereas Israel has not.
Now, since 1 January it expired. This doesn’t mean that Hamas
won’t take into account the reality: it will depend on the
conditions of the people and on the land.”
How does Hamas
think about entering into the political process?
“Hamas has been dealing with politics for a long time. Our
political platform also provides for a second way, besides the
resistance: to build the political life on a democratic and
solid foundation, to fight against corruption and introduce a
principle of freedom and justice.”
Marwan
Barghouti, from prison, is proposing to you a coalition
government together with Fatah.
“It’s too early. We have to evaluate the international
situation, which is very delicate, to consider America’s
pressures upon the Palestinian Authority, whether Abu Mazen will
ask us to accept the Oslo Accords and recognise Israel,
something that we won’t do. At any rate, we’ll partake in each
decision-making process.”
Sharon has
struck and liquidated your leadership. What have the results of
this been, Mr. Meshal?
To this question, Mr. Meshal jumps to his feet. “Look,” he says
pointing to a board on the wall: a huge diamond-shape board
filled with photos of smiling faces, of the “martyred” Hamas
leaders. On the right, glowing within a sun there’s Sheik Yassin.
On the left, Dr. Rantissi “The results are under everyone’s
eyes. That, notwithstanding all these dead men, America, Europe
and Israel will have to deal with us from now on.”
"Let
them govern, but without us"
An
interview with Saeb Erekat by Fabio Scuto
RAMALLAH—Saeb Erekat, former
minister and person in charge of negotiations with Israel on
PNA’s behalf, is sitting in his office in Ramallah that, at the
first evening lights, is surrounded by green flags waved by some
thousand Hamas’ supporters celebrating the electoral victory in
the streets. Car horns sound and slogans can be clearly heard
even through closed windows.
Dr. Erekat,
this rejoicing we’re hearing in the streets might have been
yours. While instead…
“They have won, they’ve the right to celebrate. And they’re
greatly rejoicing because what has happened is a political
tsunami.”
You have won
and been elected in your own town, Jericho; though, it has been
a total defeat for Al Fatah; how do you feel?
“I have no problems acknowledging it, frankly, I’m shocked.”
And now what
will happen?
“President Abu Mazen, after having accepted the Prime Minister
Abu Ala’s resignation, will have to charge Hamas to form the new
government, and we of Fatah don’t expect to take part in it. If
they are thinking of involving us within a coalition to get us
to do the task they don’t mean to or don’t know how to do, in
which they’ll be taking merits while we’ll be concerned with the
most awkward and, sometimes, difficult matters, they are totally
wrong.”
In your
opinion, is there any chance for an agreement with Hamas?
“We have our own agenda, founded on negotiations, on accords
with Israel. If they accept this program, we might talk about
it.”
What mistakes
have you made during the electoral campaign? Why haven’t people
voted for you?
“There have been a number of errors. We have been punished
because we didn’t manage to reach a definitive peace in these
past years, because the corruption we’ve had has been overly
emphasized, because the negotiation with Israel has stopped and
the occupation has been going on while in general life
conditions certainly haven’t improved. Moreover, Israel decided
to carry out the unilateral withdrawal from Gaza as well,
without any accord with us, thus letting Hamas ascribe the merit
of it to its armed resistance and to the no-agreement line.”
Behind the
defeat there is also the lack of renovation of your party.
“Absolutely yes, unfortunately it’s not come about. We must
start again from this defeat and go towards a deep reform inside
the Fatah. We must change the leaders, the party’s structures,
and, mainly, we must work to win back our people’s trust. I hope
that we can have a congress by next July.”
Many are sure
that a Hamas led government won’t be going too far. And that in
one year you will have to call new elections.
“It was a vote to punish us, but those who voted for Hamas
couldn’t imagine or didn’t want such a defeat. In fact, I’m sure
that many of those who yesterday voted for Hamas, today are
regretting and they would gladly change their vote.”
Translated by Diego Traversa and revised by Mary Rizzo, member
of Tlaxcala, the community of translators for linguistic
diversity (transtlaxcala@yahoo.com). This translation is on
copyleft.
http://peacepalestine.blogspot.com/2006/01/smashing-interviews-hamass-supreme.html
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