Presstitute,
Scott Pelley interviewed Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
in Tehran on Thursday. Ahmadinejad talks about his visit to New
York, Iran's nuclear program and his views on Israel.
Full transcript
below.
Part 1
Part 2
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TRANSCRIPT
SCOTT PELLEY: Do you have a greeting to the
American people?
MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD: In the name of God, the compassionate, the
merciful, I would like to greet the American people and the good
nations around the world. Right now we are in the city of
Tehran. It's in the afternoon of an autumn day. We're in the
open air in a garden. And the air is pleasant. And fall, little
by little, is settling in, mixing with the summer breeze, I
guess. And I think that right now, you have different time zones
obviously and different climates. We have early morning in the
U.S. and other time zones perhaps approaching the noon. So once
again, greetings to you. I very much hope that nations around
the world start their days with peace, friendship, and
happiness.
PELLEY: Mr. President, do you intend to press your request to
visit the World Trade Center site in New York?
AHMADINEJAD: Well, it was included in my program, if we have the
time and the conditions are conducive, I will try to do that.
PELLEY: But the New York Police Department and others do not
appear to want you there. Do you intend to go there anyway?
AHMADINEJAD: Well, over there, local officials need to make the
necessary coordinations. If they can't do that, I won't insist.
PELLEY: Sir, what were you thinking? The World Trade Center site
is the most sensitive place in the American heart, and you must
have known that visiting there would be insulting to many, many
Americans.
AHMADINEJAD: Why should it be insulting?
PELLEY: Well, sir, you're the head of government of an Islamist
state that the United States government says is a major exporter
of terrorism around the world.
AHMADINEJAD: Well, I wouldn't say that what the American
government says is the prerequisite here. Something happened
there which led to other events. Many innocent people were
killed there. Some of those people were American citizens
obviously. We obviously are very much against any terrorist
action and any killing. And also we are very much against any
plots to sow the seeds of discord among nations. Usually you go
to these sites to pay your respects. And also to perhaps air
your views about the root causes of such incidents. I think that
when I do that, I will be paying, as I said earlier, my respect
to the American nation.
PELLEY: But the American people, sir, believe that your country
is a terrorist nation, exporting terrorism in the world. You
must have known that visiting the World Trade Center site would
infuriate many Americans, as if to be mocking the American
people.
AHMADINEJAD: Well, I'm amazed. How can you speak for the whole
of the American nation?
PELLEY: Well, the American nation . . .
AHMADINEJAD: . . . you are representing a media and you're a
reporter. The American nation is made up of 300 million people.
There are different points of view over there. I would like to
think that the points of view of the American people is very
close to the points of view of the Iranian people. The American
people are very much against and opposed what certain American
officials are saying and their points of view. And they're also,
the way that the people have voted in the American elections is
very telling. And we are criticizing such behavior on the part
of the American government. We believe that if anyone just
allows himself to accuse others, there will be no possibility
for peace and friendship.
PELLEY: What do you mean the American election is telling? What
did you take from it?
AHMADINEJAD: What I'm saying is that the American people very
clearly have shown that they do not endorse what certain
American officials are saying and doing. I remind you of the
rallies in Washington a couple of days ago. What were they
saying and shouting? Perhaps 70, 80 percent of the American
people are against their troops, their sons and daughters being
in Iraq and war. And as I said, they're very much against war.
And for that matter, the American people are peace-loving
people. You shouldn't think that what the American officials are
doing and their behavior reflects completely the mood of the
American people. And American officials must not make the
American people a victim of their wants and wishes. And we make
a distinction between the American people and American
officials. And the American people are opposed to occupation,
the use of force, and also terrorism, the killing of the people
of other nations. And this is what we are saying. This is what
we believe in. With that in mind, we feel very close to the
American people. And I'm sure that this is reciprocal. A couple
of days ago, an American scientist, a scholar, wrote to me
saying that he has a great love for Iran. And once he passes, he
wants to be buried in this country. The two nations are very
close to one another.
PELLEY: Mr. President, you say that the two
nations are very close to one another, but it is an established
fact now that Iranian bombs and Iranian know-how are killing
Americans in Iraq. You have American blood on your hands. Why?
AHMADINEJAD: Well, this is what the American officials are
saying. Again, American officials wherever around the world that
they encounter a problem which they fail to resolve, instead of
accepting that, they prefer to accuse others. We basically are
very much opposed to any kind of insecurity inside Iraq. Because
once we have insecurity in Iraq, the first party, if I can use
the word, that will be affected would be Iran. Having said that,
we fully oppose occupation and also military attacks. In Iraq we
don't need to do that. For that matter, in any part of the world
we don't need to do that. When it comes to war, we don't think
that war, belligerence, is a good solution for differences of
opinion. We have said this in the past to American officials
that the Iraqi people very much oppose occupation. And they will
not accept this. And experience tells you this. This is a nation
with many thousands of years of history. They have stood up to
occupiers in the past, and they will stand up again. I'm very
sorry that, because of the wrong decisions taken by American
officials, Iraqi people are being killed and also American
soldiers. It's very regrettable. And, again, I'm saying that why
should they be killed? Why should these boys and girls be
killed? Why should we have war in Iraq and insecurity? I believe
that the people behind the insecurity are those who, from
thousands of kilometers away, have brought in troops. First,
they said that they want to topple the dictator and find WMDs
[weapons of mass destruction]. They didn't find WMDs and there's
no dictator there anymore. So the question is: What are American
troops doing right now in Iraq? They have to answer, respond to
these questions. We are not interfering in Iraq. The Iraqi
people are our friends. And the president, the prime minister,
the speaker of the parliament are our friends. We don't need to
interfere in Iraq. We are two nations which have been connected
through history. Each year millions of Iranians go to Iraq for
pilgrimage. And in a number of these bombings inside Iraq,
Iranian citizens have been killed. We want peace; we want
security in Iraq; and it only serves our own interests. And
those American officials who see the interest in a continued
occupation of Iraq, I ask them to reconsider. They should leave
alone the Iraqi nation and also their own soldiers. And they
shouldn't accuse others needlessly. We basically oppose the
killing of any person, innocent persons, from any race or
community. As I said, the Iraqi people have been victimized. We
feel very sad for them. Equally, we feel sad for American
soldiers and troops because they don't know why they're there.
They are the victims of the, if you will, the wants and wishes
of certain American officials.
PELLEY: Mr. President, American men and women are being killed
by your weapons in Iraq. You know this.
AHMADINEJAD: No, no, no.
PELLEY: Why are those weapons there?
AHMADINEJAD: Who's saying that?
PELLEY: The American Army has captured Iranian missiles in Iraq.
The critical elements of the explosively formed penetrator bombs
that are killing so many people are coming from Iran. There's no
doubt about that anymore. The denials are no longer credible,
sir.
AHMADINEJAD: Very good. If I may.
AHMADINEJAD: Are you an American politician? Am I to look at you
as an American politician or a reporter? This is what the
American officials are claiming. Well, we don't need to arrest
many people to prove that Americans are occupying Iraq or
produce fabricated documents. If you go to the streets of
Baghdad, you will see American helicopters and tanks and Humvees,
so on and so forth. So the Iraqi people are just defending
themselves. I think the way out for the American official from
this problem that it has created for itself shouldn't be in
accusing Iraq, Iran, rather. You need to understand the
realities of the region and also respect the Iraqi people. The
Iraqi people, like other people, want to have security, want to
have peace, want to be free. When they see that soldiers come
into their houses, they react. So if the American government
does accept this reality, this truth, everything will changes.
If they accuse us 1,000 times, the truth will not change. They
need to accept the truth and also the wishes of the Iraqi
people. That is a way out of this deadlock.
PELLEY: Mr. President, I want to be very direct
and very clear. Many Americans believe that you have American
blood on your hands. Are you saying that it is not the policy of
this government to send weapons into Iraq? Sir, forgive me,
you're smiling, but this is a very serious matter to America.
AHMADINEJAD: Well, it's serious for us as well. I daresay it's
serious for everyone. I'm just amazed as the representative of
the media, why do you insist on the untrue accusations leveled
by your government? This doesn't solve anything. It seems to me
it's laughable for someone to turn a blind eye to the truth and
accuse others. It doesn't help. And the reason that I'm smiling,
again, it's because that the picture is so clear. But American
officials refuse to see it. And I think that as a member of the
media, your responsibility here is to talk about the truth and
back home to force your officials to appreciate the truth and
take the correct decision. The problem in Iraq doesn't have
anything to do with the Iraqi people. For that matter the
killing of American troops doesn't have anything to do with the
Iraqi people. And as we have security, things will be better.
And we don't want to see a single soldier killed. The solutions
we are putting on the table are very humane. And, again, we are
asking for very basic things from the American officials, to
respect the wishes of the Iraqi people and also their rights. A
dictator has been toppled and WMDs have not been found. Once
they say that they are going to leave the Iraq, the Iraqi people
will live if that's so to speak. If they persist on the same
course for 50 years and arrest diplomats, so on and so forth,
this will not help with the situation. And if you repeat the
mistakes of the past, nothing will get resolved.
PELLEY: Mr. President, you must have rejoiced more than anyone
when Saddam Hussein fell. You owe President Bush. This is one of
the best things that's ever happened to your country.
AHMADINEJAD: Well, I have said this in another interview. Once
the dictator was toppled, many people were happy. But the
American government did not appropriately use this golden
opportunity. Again, this happened sometime ago and it pleased
the Iraqi people. They could have used this much better. They
should have left the Iraqi people to go their own way and to
determine their own fate and to live like other nations in this
part of the world. Well, initially, we might have had the
impression that American officials want to redeem themselves and
the mistakes they have made in the past. Because for eight years
they supported Saddam against my nation. Many hundreds of
thousands of people were killed. Thousands of people were
chemically bombarded. Many people were killed in their own
houses. This very city of Tehran was the target of more than 100
missiles. Many people were killed in Tehran. But Saddam was
being supported by American officials. So once American
officials announced that they were going to deal with Saddam,
our first impression was that they're going to make amends for
their past behavior. We have every hope and we were happy. But
once Saddam went away, they didn't find any weapons, American
officials later announced that we are here to stay in Iraq. So
there was a question: Why do you want to be there? Why do you
want to stay behind? Do you think that the Iraqi people cannot
take care of themselves? They can determine their own fate. I
think that their first biggest mistake was to remain in Iraq. If
they had left Iraq, that would have helped with positive
interaction between the American government and the peoples of
the region. But once they stayed behind and they appointed an
American administrator and they tried to influence the elections
and also the future government in Iraq, later they tried to sow
the seeds of discord and also give a free hand to terrorist
groups to come inside Iraq. So once a country is occupied, its
security is the responsibility of the occupation. However, they
have to answer for all of these. Many thousands of American
soldiers have been killed. They need to answer for their action.
Instead of answering these questions, they are accusing others.
So initially we welcome the developments, but once it continued,
this is very regrettable.
PELLEY: Mr. President, can you tell me that you are not sending
weapons to Iraq? Very simple. Very directly.
AHMADINEJAD: We don't need to do that. We are very much opposed
to war and insecurity in Iraq.
PELLEY: Is that "no," sir?
AHMADINEJAD: It's very clear, the situation. The insecurity in
Iraq is detrimental to our interests. We have more than 1,000
kilometers of common borders with Iraq. Each year, many millions
of Iranians go to Iraq and millions of Iraqis come to Iran. So
we are very unhappy with the insecurity. We are doing our very
best to help with security. For security, we decided to sit down
and talk with Americans in Iraq.
PELLEY: As a goodwill gesture, will you say
right now in this interview that you will do everything in your
power to prevent Iranian arms from entering Iraq?
AHMADINEJAD: Well, Iranian forces are not inside Iraq. Can you
show me one?
PELLEY: No sir, Iranian arms, sir.
AHMADINEJAD: Please, allow me to continue. Please, allow me to
finish my thought. The American government has admitted that
with more than 160,000 troops, state-of-the-art military
equipment, they have failed to control and put a stop to the
activities of these few people. That's very unfortunate. You
shouldn't accuse others because you have certain problems
yourself. Very clearly, we are friends to all. We very much are
saddened with war. We are very much saddened that American
troops are being killed, losing their lives over there. So you
don't know the people of the region. I think that the British
government was smarter. They left the city of Basra, pulled out
their forces. And once the British soldiers left the city, the
local people celebrated. And today, unfortunately, you're
opposing the Iraqi people. You could have stood side by side
with the Iraqi people. Again, whenever you correct your
policies, it helps everyone. It benefits you. It benefits Iraq.
It benefits all the peoples of the region. We're using
everything in our power to provide security in Iraq. We have
said so on many occasions. Whoever is killed in Iraq, that would
sadden us.
PELLEY: Mr. President, we appreciate your thoughts. Some people
watching this interview, frankly, will think that you're dodging
the questions because many of the questions that I ask you are
fairly straightforward "yes" or "no" questions. And let me try
this one again, if I may. Will you pledge tonight to do
everything in your power to prevent Iranian arms from entering
Iraq? Can you make that pledge?
AHMADINEJAD: Well, I think you have been charged with a mission
to repeat a sentence over and over again. My comments are very
clear. I think that you should go back and take American
officials to task. Use the same force you're using right now so
that they take the troops out.
PELLEY: Was that a "yes" or a "no," sir?
AHMADINEJAD: If you are to take sides, well, I don't know. Well,
you shouldn't tell me what kind of answer I should give to you.
You're free to ask me questions. I didn't put any limitations on
your questions.
PELLEY: True.
AHMADINEJAD: I'm free to give my own answers. I think that all
of us should go to American officials and ask them: "What are
you looking for in Iraq? Let's be clear. Why have you stayed
behind? Why are you accusing others? And your policies have
created insecurity. You are behind terrorism. So once you
correct your ways, these things will take care of themselves.
Why are you using a road that goes to nowhere? Use the correct
road."
AHMADINEJAD: We support the rights of all nations. We love all
nations. And the message of the Iranian people is friendship
with all. In our history, we have never attacked another
country, occupied another country. This is a peace-loving
nation. And you should remember that we are living within our
borders. And people who have brought troops from thousands of
miles away, they are the ones who should be held accountable and
responsible.
PELLEY: Mr. President, you say you love all
nations. I have to assume that includes the Nation of Israel.
AHMADINEJAD: Israel is not a nation. Well, we like the people,
yes, because they are victims as well. They used to live in
their own countries, in their own cities. They were given empty
promises, false promises. They said that we are going to give
you jobs, we are going to give you security. And they pushed the
local Palestinian people out and made them refugees and also
made refugees of another community. In other words, from
thousands of miles away, people have been emigrating to this
country and they are living in fear every day. And we feel for
them. Last year in my speech I said that the Zionist entity
should open the borders and the gates. Let the people decide
where they want to go and settle. They are good people as well.
We have no bones to pick with them. We are against terrorism. We
are against wrong policies. We are friends with all people,
Jewish people, Christians, different people of different faiths.
We are, well, we're in contact with them. Here in Iran there are
Jewish communities; there are Christian communities; we're all
friends. Also, non-Muslim countries, we help them when a
natural, let's say, calamity breaks. We love all people. We are
opposed to Zionism, occupation, terrorism, dropping bombs on
behalf of people when they are inside their own homes, killing
men, women, and children. Very openly I have said time and again
that I oppose these.
PELLEY: If the Palestinians reach an agreement with Israel for a
two-state solution, will you then recognize Israel as well?
AHMADINEJAD: Well, the decision rests with the Palestinian
people. This is exactly what I'm saying.
PELLEY: What would you do, sir?
AHMADINEJAD: What I'm saying is that you should allow -- oh,
please, let me finish my thought. What we are saying, our
solution for Palestine is a humane one. We are saying that you
should allow the Palestinian people to participate in a fair and
free election and determine their own fate. Whatever decision
they take, everyone should go with that.
PELLEY: And if that decision . . .
AHMADINEJAD: No other party must interfere. We are not telling
the Palestinian people what decisions they should take. Let them
make their own decision. Whatever decision they take, we will go
for that.
PELLEY: And if that decision is a two-state solution, you're
good with that? You could support a two-state solution?
AHMADINEJAD: Well, why are you prejudging what will happen?
Let's pave the ground first for a free and fair choice. And once
they make their choice, we must respect that. All the people,
all the Palestinian people must be given this opportunity, allow
them to make their own decisions. Let us not tell them what
course of action they need to take.
SCOTT PELLEY: You have said in the past that you
have 3,000 centrifuges in a line producing highly-enriched
uranium. Do you have more now?
MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD: No. Our plan and program is very
transparent. We are under the supervision of the agency.
Everything is on the table. We have nothing to hide.
PELLEY: Transparent? Sir, it's been hidden for more than 15
years. You've been operating a secret nuclear program. It's
nothing if it's not secret.
AHMADINEJAD: Who is saying that?
PELLEY: Well, the IAEA. You've, in fact, agreed with the IAEA to
confess what you've done in secret over the past years. It is
not transparent, sir.
AHMADINEJAD: Very good. I think that you are not familiar with
the structure and the laws and the regulations of the agency.
The agency is supposed to do two things. One, supervision. The
other, support for the member states. The agency is supposed to
supervise and ask questions and we respond. Interestingly
enough, in all agency reports, you will read that there are no
signs of diversion on the part of the Iranian people. In no
reports. But naturally, the agency has questions to ask. And
when it comes to that, interestingly enough, compared to
European countries and other countries, the questions they ask
us are far fewer. They have scores of questions to ask other
countries. But the U.S. and a number of other countries are
politicizing matters. They don't want us to progress, to
develop. So maybe it would be best if you ask the agency how
many questions they have asked the U.S. and European countries
for that matter. Scores of questions. Because they are producing
bombs, new generations of nuclear bombs, they are fabricating
those. And our activities are very peaceful under the
supervision of the agency. We have provided the largest amount
of cooperation to the agency. And what we are doing is very
transparent.
PELLEY: For the sake of clarity, because there is so much
concern in the world about this next question, please give me
the most direct answer you can. Is it your goal to build a
nuclear bomb?
AHMADINEJAD: What are you driving at?
PELLEY: Simply that, sir. Is it the goal of your government, the
goal of this nation to build a nuclear weapon?
AHMADINEJAD: Do you think that the nuclear technology is only
limited in a bomb? You can only build a bomb with that?
PELLEY: No, I appreciate the differences, sir, but the question
is limited to the bomb.
AHMADINEJAD: It has different uses. Well, you have to appreciate
we don't need a nuclear bomb. We don't need that. What needs do
we have for a bomb?
PELLEY: May I take that as a "no," sir?
AHMADINEJAD: Please, let me finish my thought. It is a firm
"no." I'm going to be much firmer now. I want to address all
politicians around the world, statesmen. Any party who uses
national revenues to make a bomb, a nuclear bomb, will make a
mistake. Because in political relations right now, the nuclear
bomb is of no use. If it was useful, it would have prevented the
downfall of the Soviet Union. If it was useful, it would have
resolved the problems the Americans have in Iraq. The U.S. has
tested new generations of bombs, many thousands of warheads you
have in your arsenals. It's of no use. And also the Zionist
entity, they have hundreds of warheads. It's not going to help
them. The time of the bomb is past. The parties who think that
by using the bomb you can control others, they are wrong. Today
we are living in the era of intellectual pursuits. You should
spend your money on your people. We don't need the bomb. For 28
years we have defended ourselves in the face of enemy onslaught.
Every day we are becoming more powerful. And, again, we don't
need such weapons. In fact, we think that this is inhuman. So
can you please tell me why the U.S. government is fabricating
these bombs? Do you want to provide a more welfare, happiness to
the people through the bomb? Are you going to deal with global
poverty? Or do you want to kill people? So our belief, sir, tell
us and also our culture, because of these, we are very much
opposed to the killing of people. This is very clear.
PELLEY: At the moment, our two countries may very well be
walking down the road to war. How do you convince President
Bush, how do you convince other nations in the West . . . .
AHMADINEJAD: What two parties are walking towards war?
PELLEY: Iran, the United States, Western countries. France this
week . . . .
AHMADINEJAD: Who says that?
PELLEY: France this week said that war might be indicated. How
do you convince these Western powers that you are not pursuing a
bomb?
AHMADEINEJAD: You haven't read the latest news,
I have to say. It's wrong to think that Iran and the U.S. are
walking towards war. Who says so? Why should we go to war? What
reasons are there for the two countries to go to war? We have a
logic which we have announced for some time now. We very much
oppose the behavior of the U.S. administration. We think it's
wrong. And we are saying what we feel, and you are free to say
what you feel. And people have a right to choose. Why should we
go to war over that? If having said that is a part of a
psychological warfare plot. The American people are well
familiar with these plots. You shouldn't make the American
people afraid needlessly. There's no war in the offing. And also
I think that certain American officials do not want friendly
relations between the two countries and the citizens of the two
countries to visit each other. Last year we requested for a
direct flight between the two countries because we want to
promote trade, promote cultural activities, and also
people-to-people contact. But the American government opposed
that. There is no war in the offing. Again, this is
psychological warfare. If you have differences of opinions, you
can use logic to resolve your differences.
PELLEY: You can show the world today that you are not pursuing a
bomb. All you have to do is give the order. Open your nuclear
facilities. Let the United Nations inspectors in there today and
prove that there is no bomb program. Why not take that course?
AHMADEINEJAD: I think that you are a little bit behind the day's
news. You might have been away on an assignment. I don't know.
PELLEY: I'm familiar with the day's news.
AHMADEINEJAD: The reports say that we have been complying. And
they are inspecting all of our sites every day. What more am I
supposed to do? So, I try to be as frank as possible, but . . .
.
PELLEY: You're opening the sites slowly over time, sir. People
say that you're just trying to gather as much highly-enriched
uranium as you possibly can.
AHMADEINEJAD: No. No. No. Well, should you say this, make these
accusations or agency inspectors? Inspectors have said, that we
are saying that Iran has not diverted; there's no diversion
here, in other words. Again, let me repeat. We have not diverted
from a peaceful path. This is what the agencies think. There is
a solution here, however, a very simple solution. The countries
that have atomic bombs should destroy their stockpiles. And that
would make everyone happy. You shouldn't accuse others
needlessly, and you shouldn't lose your temper and make life
miserable for others as well. They have made mistakes and have
diverted themselves. They think that others will do the same.
There are many countries which have the technology. Five or six
have diverted from the peaceful path, road, rather. So those
five or six should return to the correct path. If certain
parties think that they have rights which go beyond the normal
rights that any nation should have, that will be problematic. I
think that the American government should appreciate that it is
like any other member of the international community, respect
the views of the agency. It's very regrettable to see that
certain U.S. officials have insulted the very clear positions
taken by the agency, and they have lost their temper. And also
they have made threats. They have attacked the director general
of the agency. That is shameful. If you think that the agency is
a reputable one, you should allow it to go ahead with its
business. Why should you, or the agency, for that matter, repeat
the words of the secretary of state? Rather, what they need to
do is report the facts, the truth. So the problems of the
American politicians is because they are interested in their own
interests. And they want the rest of the world just to say "yes,
sir" and go along with whatever they say. That is finished. It's
in the past.
PELLEY: What trait do you admire in President Bush?
AHMADINEJAD: Again, I have a very frank tone. I think that
President Bush needs to correct his ways.
PELLEY: What do you admire about him?
AHMADEINEJAD: He should respect the American people.
PELLEY: Is there anything? Any trait?
AHMADINEJAD: As an American citizen, tell me what trait do you
admire?
PELLEY: Well, Mr. Bush is, without question, a very religious
man, for example, as you are. I wonder if there's anything that
you've seen in President Bush that you admire.
AHMADEINEJAD: Well, is Mr. Bush a religious man?
PELLEY: Very much so. As you are.
AHMADEINEJAD: What religion, please tell me, tells you as a
follower of that religion to occupy another country and kill its
people? Please tell me. Does Christianity tell its followers to
do that? Judaism, for that matter? Islam, for that matter? What
prophet tells you to send 160,000 troops to another country,
kill men, women, and children? You just can't wear your religion
on your sleeve or just go to church. You should be truthfully
religious. Religion tells us all that you should respect the
property, the life of different people. Respect human rights.
Love your fellow man. And once you hear that a person has been
killed, you should be saddened. You shouldn't sit in a room, a
dark room, and hatch plots. And because of your plots, many
thousands of people are killed. Having said that, we respect the
American people. And because of our respect for the American
people, we respectfully talk with President Bush. We have a
respectful tone. But having said that, I don't think that that
is a good definition of religion. Religion is love for your
fellow man, brotherhood, telling the truth.
PELLEY: I take it you can't think of anything
you like about President Bush.
AHMADEINEJAD: Well, I'm not familiar with the gentleman's
private life. Maybe in his private life he is very kind or a
determined man. I'm not aware of that. I base my judgment on
what I see in his public life. Having said that, I think that
President Bush can behave much better. There were golden
opportunities for President Bush. He should have used them
better.
PELLEY: I asked President Bush what he would say to you if he
were sitting in this chair. And he told me, quote, speaking to
you, that you've made terrible choices for your people. You've
isolated your nation. You've taken a nation of proud and
honorable people and made your country the pariah of the world.
These are President Bush's words to you. What's your reply to
the president?
AHMADINEJAD: Well, President Bush is free to think as he pleases
and to say what he pleases. I don't oppose the freedom of
speech. I believe in freedom of speech. President Bush is free
to say what he pleases. But these would not change the truth. So
that President Bush knows the Iranian people are dearly loved
today. We can very well put this to the test to find out who has
become isolated. Again, maybe one of my friends could go to
another country and a friend of President Bush could go to the
same country, find out which one of us is isolated. You're free
to choose any country you like. I don't think that President
Bush has said these things. Rather, I prefer to think that this
is your impression of what the president has said.
PELLEY: I'm quoting the president directly for the record.
AHMADEINEJAD: This is a direct quote? So, well, this tells me
that there's a great divide between us.
PELLEY: Why does your government confiscate your people's
satellite dishes? What is it that you don't want your people to
see?
AHMADEINEJAD: Well, it's not prohibited like that. After
everything is said and done, this is a law passed by the Iranian
parliament. And the members of the parliament have been chosen
by the people. Having said that, the Iranian people are, by and
large, using satellite television. You can go out on the streets
and see this for yourself.
PELLEY: But as you well know, they are confiscated from time to
time in sweeps in the country. And I wonder what it is that you
don't want your people to see.
AHMADINEJAD: Well, again, this is the law. Our people are free
and express their opinion about all matters internationally.
They are well aware of international news. Having said that, I
like to think that the Iranian people is one of the most
well-informed nations. You can go to the street and ask the
people yourself. Reporters from other countries go to different
Iranian cities, they're free to move about and ask questions.
But Iranian reporters cannot do the same in the U.S. You can
very easily come and see me and just ask me questions, but our
reporters cannot ask questions from American officials. Our
interview today is going to be aired from the Iranian TV. I very
much hope that Iranian reporters will be given a possibility to
ask questions from American officials. Then the truth will be
uncovered.
PELLEY: You know, I'm curious. Looking back over the years, do
you believe today that taking the American hostages in 1979 was
a mistake?
AHMADEINEJAD: Well, you have to deal with different things in
their own time. If you go back in time, things will go wrong. If
you go back 500 years, what happened in Europe and the U.S. for
that matter. You shouldn't look back at what happened in the
past. Have your sights towards the future. This wouldn't help
with anything. Because if you are to do that, we have to go over
the dossier of the activities of various American
administrations in this country from 1337 Iranian calendar
onwards. That wouldn't be a pretty picture. I don't want to talk
about and think about the dark passages of our history. Let's
have our sights towards the future.
PELLEY: Mr. President, I just have a few questions. We have
appreciated your answers very much, and I know we're pressing on
time here. We would be very grateful if you wouldn't mind taking
just a few more. Will you, in this interview tonight, rule out
the possibility of a nuclear test of an Iranian weapon during
your presidency?
AHMADEINEJAD: Well, we don't have any plans.
PELLEY: But rule it out. Say that "we will not test a nuclear
device as long as I am president." Can you say that?
AHMADINEJAD: Please, please, let me finish my thought. Actually,
I very much oppose this behavior. Picture it. If an Iranian
reporter kept repeatedly asking the same questions from a U.S.
official, how would you feel? Would you feel good about that?
PELLEY: I would.
AHMADINEJAD: I think that instead of going
astray here and misleading the public, we should try to help
with the uncovering of the truth. You are a member of the media.
You are not a government official. You should be concerned with
the truth. We should all be concerned with the truth. We don't
need such weapons. Those who don't have anything to say to other
nations and deal with them, they resort to atomic weapons. We
are a cultured people and we have good relations with all
nations. And the status of a country has nothing to do with
atomic weapons, rather its culture and its civilization. And
whenever we make a decision, we are courageous enough to come
out and say that we have made such a decision. Whatever we want
to do, we have nothing to hide. We clearly will announce that.
Well, I said sometime ago that if you sanction us, we are going
to take the production to an industrial scale, and we did that.
And we said that we will continue to push ahead undaunted. We
did that. We have no problems. When it comes to that, we are
very transparent and we have a frank tone of voice. Let me be
frank and very straightforward here. I oppose the unilateral
policies and bullying policies of the American administration. I
believe that these lead to war, leads to greater poverty and
killing. I believe that you can manage the war better through
friendship, mutual respect, and by respecting laws and also fair
play. Again, I'm being very frank here. I oppose the very idea
of the bomb. I have nothing to hide. Also, I oppose the policies
of the American administration.
PELLEY: If the United Nations Security Council or the European
Union votes in favor of additional sanctions against your
country, what will you do?
AHMADEINEJAD: Well, they are just trapping themselves. They can
become trapped themselves. Because any person or party who
insists on a wrong decision, that will be problematic for him,
no other person. For 28 years now we have been under political
pressure and economic sanctions. What happened? Nothing. And the
Iranian people have managed to push ahead with technology. Our
economy is growing each day. And, of course, having said that, I
think that that course of action is highly unlikely. There are
wise people in different countries which will not go ahead with
this. Iran is a member of the agency. We're under the
supervision of the agency. The agency's reports are very
transparent. We have provided the fullest amount of cooperation
to the agency. If a party wants to go beyond the law, they will
just, this will be to their own detriment. I have said time and
again you can do nothing to this country. This is a great
country. We have extensive God-given riches and resources. From
a political point of view, we are strong and powerful. And under
any conditions, we will manage to push ahead. But they need to
appreciate that if having said that, I don't think that such a
thing is possible. Again, a number of American officials want
this to happen. But you shouldn't worry about that. Just say
that this is not going to happen.
PELLEY: If sanctions do occur, if another round of sanctions
occur, you will continue to enrich uranium behind closed doors,
I take it.
AHMADEINEJAD: This is not going to happen. I have talked
extensively about this. Nobody is able to impose an unlawful
course of action on the Iranian people. The Iranian people will
not abide by that, accept that. And it will not serve their
interests to do that. Both the American government and other
countries, it helps them if they are friends with Iran. As a
friend, I need to tell you to take this route. Again, you're
free to take any route you want. And you would have to, you will
have to go with the repercussions. So these past few years, what
has it gotten you? And the conditions will not change to benefit
them; I assure you of that.
PELLEY: Would an attack on your nuclear sites, in your opinion,
give you leave to attack U.S. forces in the region or the U.S.
mainland?
AHMADEINEJAD: Who is going to attack this country?
PELLEY: President Bush has pledged that you will not be allowed
to possess a nuclear weapon and will use military force if
necessary.
AHMADEINEJAD: I think Mr. Bush, if he wants his party to win the
next election, there are cheaper ways and ways to go about this.
I can very well give him a few ideas so that the people vote for
him. He should respect the American people. They should not bug
the telephone conversations of their citizens. They should not
kill the sons and daughters of the American nation. They should
not squander the taxpayers' money and give them to weapons
companies. And also help the people, the victims of Katrina.
People will vote for them if they do these things. But if they
insist on what they are saying right now, this will not help
them. Again, nobody can hurt the Iranian people. And history
tells us that the people who have been less than kind to the
Iranian people, they have lost out. What I'm saying, I am being
very sincere here. I'm a Muslim. I cannot tell a lie. I am
supposed to tell the truth. What I'm saying is that President
Bush's conduct in Iraq is wrong. And his wrong conduct is behind
his party losing the previous elections. This is very clear. The
American people are very much dismayed with the behavior and the
conduct of the present administration. They are not dismayed
with Iran. In fact, the two nations are very close to one
another. An example of that would be the letter sent to me by an
American scholar a few days ago.
PELLEY: You mentioned telling the truth as a Muslim, and as you
know so much better than I do, Verse 42 of the second sura: "The
truth shall not be obscured by falsehood, and those who know the
truth must tell it." But when I ask you a question as direct as
"Will you pledge not to test a nuclear weapon?" you you dance
all around the question. You never say "yes." You never say
"no."
AHMADEINEJAD: Well, thank you for that. You are like a CIA
investigator. And you are . . .
PELLEY: I am just a reporter. I am a simple, average American
reporter.
AHMADEINEJAD: This is not a Baghdad prison. Please, this is not
a secret prison in Europe. This is not Abu Ghraib. This is Iran.
I'm the president of this country. Well, I think that I've gone
beyond what you've asked me, above and beyond. And I think that
if you speak to your job as a reporter, what I have said so far,
again, goes above and beyond what you ask me.
PELLEY: One last thing. So important for the
American people to understand. When your airplane approaches
Manhattan this week, you will look out the window and you will
see that the World Trade Center is gone. Many Americans, Mr.
President, to be frank, believe that you look out that window
and you say to yourself, "Good. Somebody got 'em." They believe
our countries are enemies.
AHMADEINEJAD: Well, you shouldn't speak on behalf of the
American people. I can speak on behalf of the Iranian people,
but you cannot speak on behalf of the American people. Why do
you insist on doing that? Why do you not allow the American
people to speak for themselves? Why? Let them speak for
themselves. The people gathered around the White House a couple
of days ago. They spoke whatever was in their hearts and minds.
Are they not American citizens? Hundreds of thousands of people
have rallied against the war. Are they not citizens? Our
government at the time expressed its condemnation. We issued an
official communiqué condemning that incident. How can you, in
your mind, accuse and condemn others? Well, if an Iranian person
for that matter had done the same thing, it would have been
shameful, and it would not have been fair. So, again, this is
not fair. Maybe this is your point of view or also perhaps your
editor's point of view. And you are saying that the American
people are saying these things. The American people still don't
know who was behind the bombing of the Twin Towers. Many books
in the U.S. have been written about the incident., and there are
questions circling in your society. Once you go back, go to the
streets, ask the local people who was behind this, what were the
reason for that? And, again, I fail to see why you continually
say “the American people.“ I have the latest surveys. Eighty
percent of the American citizens say that the American
government knew about the attack beforehand. They had
information.
PELLEY: You don't believe that, sir.
AHMADEINEJAD: I'm not making a judgment here, mind you. I'm not
being judgmental. That's not important for me. What is important
for me is to find out why this happened. We can take a course of
action which ensures this never happens. Why should we manage
the world like this? It's very possible for us all to be
friends, for the world to be in peace, and for the family of man
to love one another and to not hate one another. So who
propagates these ideas, I ask you. We should all be friends. We
should deal fairly with one another, respect one another.
Nations do not have any problems when it comes to interacting
with one another. Unethical politicians make war. Nations don't
make war. We're saying that you should allow our nations to be
friends with one another. We condemned that incident right there
and then. Why should many innocent people be killed? For what
reason? Well, behind this building there is another building, a
building which in 1360 Iranian calendar, some 25 years ago, the
Iranian president and the prime minister in the office, they
were blown up by terrorists, a bomb planted by terrorists. And
the president and the prime minister burned in that bomb, by
that bomb. And, again, this is very regrettable that those
terrorists, which were behind that bombing and other
assassinations in this country, can freely have access to
American officials are being protected by the American Army in
Iraq. So this country is a victim of terrorism throughout its
history. So you cannot produce even one document, a single
document, about terrorist action on the part of the Iranian
government or Iranian officials. We are very clear in our
position. We say that we spiritually support the right of the
Palestinian people and also independence for Iraq. We have
nothing to hide. We are very much opposed to the Iraqi
occupation. Again, we have nothing to hide. It's very
regrettable that many thousands of people were killed in the
Twin Tower incident. We have announced time and again. And what
we are asking is can we do something that ensures this never
happens? And the answer is "yes." We can do that, providing a
number of parties do not establish terrorist organizations and
set them off on nations. We know who is behind terrorist
organizations. You know full well who is behind a number of
terrorist organizations around my part of the world, that is.
Who provided them with logistical support, political support?
It's a very well-known fact they have made and created these
terrorist organizations themselves.
PELLEY: Who, sir?
AHMADINEJAD: It's very clear. Very clear.
PELLEY: Make it clearer. Name the names.
AHMADEINEJAD: I don't want to name names. I don't want to name
names. But the terrorist organizations in Afghanistan, who is
behind them? And what intelligence organization belonging to
what country is behind them? This is very clear.
PELLEY: Shall I say CIA and the United States? Will that . . .
AHMADEINEJAD: Well, maybe you know something that . . . The
relations and the developments in this part of the world are
somewhat clear. I don't want to say something which would
agitate and fan the flames of the situation. What I'm saying
that this is shameful. My country is a great victim of
terrorism. We very much oppose terrorism. As I said, we oppose
terrorism. Why? Why should innocent people be killed? For what
reason? We are saying that each and every person should be
respected regardless of their color, creed, what country they
come from, what language they speak. We're all fellow human
beings. We should be respected. Why some parties ask more than
their fair share? Why do they insult nations? They shouldn't do
that. This is not right.
PELLEY: Would you reestablish . . .
AHMADEINEJAD: If I may. Who created secret prisons in Europe?
You don't know that? Did Iran establish those prisons? This one
is very clear and the documents have been revealed. Why are they
creating secret prisons? If the law provides the possibility to
establish these prisons, go ahead. Why this skullduggery? So
this is, again, very clear.
PELLEY: Would you reestablish diplomatic relations with the
United States? Is that something you want? Something you would
do right away?
AHMADINEJAD: Well, our foreign policy is a policy which says
that we should have relations with all countries and nations.
Before the revolution, this country was much damaged by American
policy. Our late imam said that we will not have relations with
two countries: one, the apartheid regime of South Africa; the
other, the Zionist regime. We like to have relations with all
countries. The American administration cut off relations
themselves unilaterally. The Carter administration perhaps they
were thinking that this would be to their benefit. But this
didn't happen. We would like to have relations with all
countries based on mutual respect. This is the very basis of our
foreign policy. I think that we are done.
PELLEY: You have been generous with your time, Mr. President.
Thank you for your time very much.
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