With us here
in the studio Sheikh Nabeel Naim former founder of
Jihad Organization & expert in Islamist groups,
you were in Afghanistan with Osama Bin Laden & Dr.
Ayman Zawahri, in accommodation and also in prison
with Dr. Ayman Zawahri, can we say now you retired
Nabeel Naiem: Not
really, they are the ones who deviated, we went
there to fight the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan,
and there was almost a unanimous agreement among
Islamic clerics that time on that (Jihad against
Soviets), and after that they deviated and turned
their activities against Islamic and Arabic
countries, and they committed the prohibited which
is killing Muslims, and at the same time after the
death of Osama Bin Laden, Al-Qaeda turned into a
- You are one of the
founders of Jihad in Egypt, and you were at the
beginning times of Al-Qaeda so to speak, can a
member of that rank distance himself from Al-Qaeda,
leave the organization? Will the organization leave
him? Some say it is not accepted in the ideology of
Nabeel Naiem: No, the
organization deviated, they became Takfiris, they
are killing Muslims.. Am I fighting Jihad (holy war)
to go to hell or seeking heaven?!
What is the
cause of Jihad? (whoever kills a believer
intentionally Ė his recompense is Hell, wherein he
will abide eternally, and Allah has become angry
with him and has cursed him and has prepared for him
a great punishment) [Quran 4:93]
- Did they
call you a Kafir (non-believer) now?
Nabeel Naiem: The
high ranks, like Ayman, no they did not, but the
small lads theyíre the ones who consider me Kafir.
- The natural
question one would ask: Why wouldnít some who
consider you Kafir try to assassinate you?
Nabeel Naiem: No, Iím
a legend.. I have a history those same boys are
astonished with my history, and they wonder why I
changed, I was the cloud above those boys..
I was a solid
warrior and I fought and have a horrible history
whether inside Egypt or outside it, Iím not just a
lad, or someone who just joined, I was everything in
I mean now
after the Takfiri ideology (labeling people as
Kuffar Ė non-believers) why nobody tried to
liquidate you with this Takfiri ideology?
This is with
Godís grace upon me, and then I have a history..
When they get to know my history.. none of them have
achieved the history I did.
- Back to the
questions I understand youíre telling me the main
structure of Al-Qaeda does not exist anymore.. Are
talking now about schism? Can we say that (Daesh)
ISIS is part of Al-Qaeda?
Nabeel Naiem: No, the
old commanders have left the whole organization,
only Ayman is left and around him a few we call them
mentally retarded or crazy, Takfiri people.. But all
the founders have left, some died and the others
As for ISIS,
it follows the ideology of Al-Qaeda organization,
which was found by Sayyed Imam Sherif and put it in
his book Al Jamei Fi Talab Al-ilm Al Sharif (Bible
of Seeking Honorable Learning), & itís one of the
most dangerous books circulated in the world, and
itís translated to all languages by the way,
Kurdish, Urdu, Persian, Turkish.. etc.
- You say that
ISIS is a branch of Al-Qaeda?
Nabeel Naiem: It
adopts the ideology of Al-Qaeda. ISIS was
established in 2006, we created Al-Qaeda since 1989.
- Explain to
me now the position of Dr. Ayman Zawahri from ISIS
and Abu Bakr Baghdadi (head of ISIS), what do they
He (Zawahri) asked Abu Bakr Baghdadi to pledge
allegiance to him (as the Emir..) but Abu Bakr
Baghdadi, since heís basically a U.S. agent, told
him: we are the people of cause, the cause of
liberating Iraq, Syria and so.. Youíre the one who
should pledge allegiance to us, Ayman (Zawahri)
refused so there was a dispute and a fight between
- How he is an
American agent? Explain to us how?
Nabeel Naiem: It is
known that the USA released him from prison and he
spent 20 to 30 million US Dollars to establish these
ISIS groups and the first ISIS camps were
established in Jordan, and Jordan doesnít allow
camps for charity, when Jordan establish camps to
train terrorist groups, it doesnít do that out of
good will and charity, these camps were supervised
by the Marines, and the arming of ISIS is all
American.. and how do they arrange their expenses? I
was in charge of a camp for 120 men, we were
spending thousands of thousands (of dollars).. food,
drinks, weapons, munition, training..
- Excuse me, youíre
talking about ISIS? You were in charge of an ISIS
Nabeel Naiem: No, I
am telling you I was once in charge of a camp of 120
men and we were spending that time thousands (of
Dollars), imagine how much this ISIS is spending?!
Let me tell you something.. The wounded from ISIS
during (terrorist) operations, are they being
treated here in Lebanon? No, neither in Syria, nor
in Saudi nor in Egypt, where do they go? They go to
Israel. Now as we speak there are 1,500 of ISIS &
Nusra (Front) are in Tel Aviv hospitals.
- From where this
Nabeel Naiem: Where
are their wounded? Donít they have wounded? Where
are they being treated? This is well known..
- They have field
hospitals, and itís remarkable that they have a
number of doctors in their ranks, even doctors from
Nabeel Naiem: Yes,
the field doctor would only give first aid until you
reach the hospital.
- You mentioned an
important point about financing, I read for your a
lot actually when at the beginning of Al-Qaeda when
talking about Osama Bin Laden you were talking about
Nabeel Naiem: Osama
was spending by himself, but before Osama there was
the International Islamic Relief Organization and
the connection between us and them was Dr. Abdulla
Azzam, then we had some issues with Adbulla Azzam so
he cut off from us the money and expenses so we
replaced him with Osama Bin Laden, and the brothers
in Al-Qaeda, mainly from the GCC countries called
him Emir of Arabs.
- You just mentioned
that 120 members required thousands, we are talking
about a structure spread worldwide, could this be
understood in the context of self-financing reaching
ISIS today? Iíll read what the British Independent
Newspaper said, it reveals there are a number of
donors from Saudi who played an essential role in
establishing Jihadist groups since over 30 years,
thatís why I ask you about the beginnings as you
were there then.. Itís a CIA report and itís after
September 11 attacks and it suggests Al-Qaeda had
relied on middlemen who collected money from Saudi &
other GCC donors..
Nabeel Naiem: This is
Ďcrabí what the Independent says, these are foolish
people, a fool journalist who doesnít know what to
say. First of all, the donations of GCC citizens to
the Jihadist groups in Afghanistan was known and
done publicly and it was advertised in newspapers
and on TV, what this Independent guy adding?
Iím one of the
people who took more than a thousand free air
tickets from the International Islamic Relief
- Please explain what
are you aiming at with the International Islamic
Nabeel Naiem: It was
paying our expenses while we were in the Afghani
Jihad, bring weapons, ammunition, training, food,
drinks.. all of this we were getting from the
Islamic Relief Org.. they were spending..
- This is what I
meant, Islamic Relief Org. is specialized in
collecting Zakat (charity) and itís in Saudi
Nabeel Naiem: These
are fools.. Prince Sulaiman Bin Abdul Aziz was in
charge of it, it was not running loose you grab what
you want and go on.. It was Saudi Intelligence and
Prince Sulaiman Bin Abdul Aziz was in charge of it,
it wasnít a loose charity you fill your pockets and
there was a hospital called Kuwaiti Crescent
Hospital, it had 250 beds, it had all kinds of
operations, and it had doctors employed there, money
(budget), medicine, used to spend millions, it was
under Kuwaiti (Red) Crescent.
So what new
this Independent is telling? USA itself was
supporting Hikmatyar, Who brought Stinger missiles
to the Afghani Mujahideen? The missiles which badly
hurt the USSR? It was brought by the USA..
- This is the point
you mentioned when talking about Al-Qaeda, USA
supported Al-Qaeda because it was fighting Russia,
today when we come closer to this region, who
supports who in favor of who? ISIS works for who?
Nabeel Naiem: Look,
thereís nothing constant in these matters, take for
example after Russia was defeated (in Afghanistan)
the Americans wanted to get rid of the Arab
Afghanis, and in fact the Arab Afghanis were
arrested, deported and some like us were jailed, so
Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan was struck by September 11
attacks and after Osama Bin Ladenís death Al-Qaeda
was bought by the Qatari Intelligence, and I tell
you during the International Conference of Ikhwan
(Muslim Brotherhood) in Istanbul, Qatar decided to
create a fund to sponsor Free Egyptian Army and paid
1 billion dollar for it, and the person in charge of
this fund is Ali Kurrah Zadah, Muslim Brotherhood
official in Turkey, this is the finance, not like
someone says 1 sheikh is donating..!
- This is one
side, whatís important to know is what ISIS wants
from Iraq? Is it the issue of borders? The borders
strategy? Borders war? But this ideology is
trans-borders it seems, how did ISIS expand from
Syria into Iraq? What does it want exactly from
Nabeel Naiem: No
dear, ISIS started in Iraq, and Ibrahim Abu Bakr
Baghdadi is Iraqi (national), and after that they
were given camps to train in Jordan and they
smuggled into Syria from Jordan and they were
defeated in Syria then they moved back into Iraq
As to whatís
happening in Iraq, itís bigger than ISIS, Mosul city
has 4 million residents & itís second largest
province, in Iraq thereís a problem between the
Arabs in Anbar and (Prime Minister) Maliki, and
ĎMaliki Armyí who handed over their weapons had
Shiite commanders, so nobody would argue ISIS and
Shiites, those commanders handed over their weapons
to Arab tribes but ISIS is in the headlines.
something called Management of Savagery, a book
titled Management of Savagery..
- We have shown some
details about this book on our channel..
Nabeel Naiem: Abu
Bakr Muhammad Maqdisi in this book has taken the
same policy of Genghis Khan, thanks God they didnít
claim they derived their policies from prophet
Muhammad, because God said: ĎThere has certainly
been for you in the Messenger of Allah an excellent
pattern for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the
Last Day and [who] remembers Allah often.í [Quran
33:21].. So their Ďexcellent patterní was Genghis
used to enter a village and annihilates all living
in it, even animals heíd slaughter it, and burn down
the houses, so the next village hears that Genghis
Khan is coming they flee away and this is what ISIS
is doing in Iraq, and whatís the goal of ISIS? When
ISIS entered Samerra they killed a thousand Sunni,
and now killing Shiites, and this is the American
Kissinger wrote a memo in 1982 or 1984, donít
remember exactly, itís titled The 100 Years War.
When asked where this 100 years war will occur? He
said in the Middle East when we ignite the war
between the Sunnah and the Shiites.
working on igniting the war between the Sunna and
the Shiites, just like what Abu Mussab (Zarqawi)
used to blow up Sunnah mosques then blow up Shiite
mosques, to start the sectarian war in the region;
and this is of course an American plot, and I tell
you ISIS didnít kill a single American.
behead a single American and didnít play football
with his head, they beheaded Muslims and ate livers
of Muslims and didnít kill a single American though
itís established since 2006..
- Youíre talking
about ISISís brutality and ideology but it finds
popularity among the youth.. and popularity among
many sides and it practices the highest level of
violence and brutality, can you explain to us what
makes all these groups with all its diversities to
join this organization?
Nabeel Naiem: Itís
the Takfiri ideology, the problem with this Takfiri
ideology itís widely spread among the European
I sat with
them.. The European Muslims denounced everything
they saw in Europe..
- But they
also come from GCC countries and Islamic countries
Nabeel Naiem: Iím
with you, itís spread among the Muslims in Europe
and itís spread in Saudi because Wahhabism is the
closest to Takfir than others. And when I sat with
them I found out they have a single-sided Takfiri
thinking, like when I spoke with Sayyed Imam in the
judgment against the rulerís assistants, where he
said thereís no ruler who can rule by himself, he
must have the support of the police and army thus
the police & army are all also Kuffar (infidels)
like him, so I asked what about who goes to the
polls to elect the ruler? He replied: Heís a Kafir
I told him:
you have labeled the Army, police and the people as
Kuffar (infidels), youíre a Takfiri..
(Islam) is not so strict, it includes prevention
excuses like ignorance, circumstances, causes.. they
didnít study all this, for them the ruler is an
infidel that means all of those with him are
infidels.. Bashar (Assad) is a Nusairi then all of
those with him are Nusairis, although that the
Syrian Army 90% of it is Sunni, because thatís the
Sunni percentage of Syrians.
But they are
one-sided thinking and theyíre ignorant..
- Ignorant in
Ignorant of the religion (Islam). I was living with
Ayman (Zawahri), Ayman is ignorant, he wasnít saying
anything without consulting me first..
- In spite that you
mentioned that Ayman Zawahri was refusing at one
stage of time to accept the Takfiris (in Al-Qaeda)..
Nabeel Naiem: Yes, we
were the ones who didnít allow them. I told him: If
your brother Muhammad joins the organization we will
dissolve it because your brother is Takfiri. So he
agreed until we entered jail and weíre separated,
his brother came in and took over the whole
organization, and his brother is retarded actually,
heís Takfiri and retarded, if you talk with him you
feel youíre talking with someone who is brainless..
- Thatís whatís
strange as I mentioned weíre talking about different
segments of societies from different countries and
even from different education levels, we see PHD
holders, how do you call all of these ignorant?
Ignorance in religion is something and being a
doctor is something else.. Iíll give you an example.
If Iím a doctor in a clinic, and with me is a nurse,
and for 30 years he will be with me, will he become
a doctor after 30 years?
nurse become a doctor after 30 years being a nurse?
- This is as a
Nabeel Naiem: Theyíre
like this, they educate themselves by themselves,
theyíre like the nurses, theyíll never become
doctors. I am specialized in Islamic Sharia, for me
heís ignorant, ignorant in the religion, he doesnít
understand the religion.
- We should explain,
youíre talking about Jihad? Salafist Jihad or
Takfiris? These are the segments?
Nabeel Naiem: Yes,
- All of them?
Nabeel Naiem: I
argued with their top sheikh (cleric) Ė Salafists,
Salafist Jihadist and Takfiris, these are 3
different samples, all of them are ignorant?
different theyíre all ignorant, I was living with
Sayyed Imam Sharif, heís the international founder
of the whole ideology spread in the region from
Jakarta to Nouakchott (in Mauritania), he wrote them
a book titled ĎAl Jamei Fi Talab Al-ilm Al-Sharif
(Bible in Seeking Honorable Learning), this book is
the manifest and ideology of all the Takfiri groups
like ISIS, Nusra Front, Ansar Bet Maqdas (Jerusalem
House Supporters), Salafist Jihadist, and all of
those you can imagine, and nobody wrote after the
book of Sayyed Imam (Sharif).
I debated with
Sayyed Imam and debated with him about a lot of
matters, he told me in the next edition of the book
he will rectify & mention the comments I said, he
didnít, he re-issued the book as it is.
I also argued
with someone a Takfiri just for sins, a sin is
infidelity, like the one committing adultery doesnít
do so and heís a believer thus heís a Kafir
(infidel), so I argued with him: the punishment for
the believer who becomes a disbeliever (leaves
Islam) is death, and the adultererís punishment is
flogging, how does the punishment differ (when
committing a sin only)?
The differ in
ideology and thinking is long since the beginnings,
after Osama Bin Laden (era) between (Ayman) Zawahri
& (Abu Bakr) Maqdisi, which resulted in the schism
among other organizations, but when we talk now
about ISIS, if we compare them with Al-Qaeda,
thereís an essential difference between them..
difference in ideology, only organizational
- Then what is the
future of ISIS based on?
Nabeel Naiem: As long
as the youth are convinced with the Takfir ideology,
ISIS will continue.
is playing on 2 levels: Bashar Assad (Syrian
president) is a Nusairi infidel & should be fought,
and they use the Fatwas (religious judicial opinion)
of Ibn Taymiyyah in regards with the Nusairi sect..
- Depending on
feeding these thoughts will ensure its continuity,
and maybe other interests..
Nabeel Naiem: And
oil.. All sorts of feeding: intellectual, money,
gears, munition, all of that.. As long as there are
sources feeding this ideology ISIS will continue..
founder of Fourth-Generation Warfare said so, he
said: we do not need trans-continent armies that
would awake nationalism and they return to us as
bodies like what happened in Afghanistan & Vietnam,
but we should find agents inside the (targeted)
country who will carry out the task of the soldiers,
and we need a media tool to falsify truths for the
people, and money to spend on them..
This is the
Fourth-Generation Warfare, agents instead of
- This is an
alternative army, a war by proxy?
Nabeel Naiem: Yes of
- Between who (this
war)? We are talking about armies on the ground, Al
Qaeda and all what branches out of it, these armies
work for the account of which battle and between
Nabeel Naiem: It
works for the US Intelligence (CIA).
- Who it fights?
Nabeel Naiem: The
regimes, they put a plan in 1998 called Clean Break
- In Iraq, who is it
fighting? Is it fighting Nouri Maliki (Iraqi PM)?
Nabeel Naiem: It
fights both Sunnah and Shiites, when they entered
Sammerra, Sheikh Ali Hatimi, head of Anbar Tribes
said: ISIS entered Sammerra and killed a thousand
Sunni in cold blood.. and it kills Shiites and kills
Christians and kills whoever it faces, ISIS
considers all people infidels and their bloods are
Imam Ali appropriated his blood, who slaughtered
Hussein wasnít he a Muslim and from a sect claims
All these have
a shameless historic extension, the prophet PBuH
called them Dogs of Hell, the prophet said: Ďif I
meet them I will kill them the same killing of ĎAad
and Iram of the Pillarsí, those are the ones behind
these ideologies, the ideologies of Khawarij
(outlaws in Islam) who the prophet warned of them,
and these will continue, as for ISIS, ISIS did not
kill a single American. The opposition fighting
Bashar Al-Assad fiercefully for 3 years did not
shoot a single bullet against Israel..
- What makes the
close enemy, so to speak, in the ideology of these
groups, the close enemy is these countries and its
leaders, geographically speaking, this term as close
enemy and far enemy exists in Al-Qaeda, you
mentioned Israel which is not far geographically,
what makes it far for them?
Nabeel Naiem: No,
they donít say this, they say: fighting an apostate
is a more priority than fighting the original
infidel, close and far thatís an old saying.. The
apostate is us now..
- As per their
Nabeel Naiem: Yes, we
are apostate, the Arab rulers are apostate, the Arab
armies are apostate, thus fighting the apostate is a
priority over fighting the original infidel, the
Issam Hattito, head of Muslim Brotherhood
responsible for leading the battles against Bashar
Assad, where does he reside? Is he in Beirut? Riyadh
or Cairo? Heís residing in Tel Aviv.
does he stay in Riyadh, Cairo or Tehran? Heís moving
between New York, Paris and London, his employers,
who pay his expenses..
When Obama was
exposed and it was learned that heís arming ISIS and
Nusra Front with American and Turkish weapons said:
ĎWe will stop the arming because the American
weaposn were leaked to Nusra..í Didnít Obama say
discovered it was leaked after 2 years war?!
fighters are 10,000 and ISIS fighters are another
10,000, all 20,000 fighters using American weapons,
and Obama claims after 2 years he discovers his
(American) weapons are leaked to them?! Are you
thinking we are fools?
This is a
conspiracy against the region, and I told you
Netenyahu & Dick Chenney put the
Clean Break plan in the year 1998, and itís
destroying 4 countries, they start with Iraq, then
Syria then Egypt then Saudi Arabia. Itís called
Clean Break plan (PNAC), well known.. Using radical
groups in the region.
The legal case
(former Egyptian president) Mohammad Morsi is being
tried for, the case of communicating (with the
enemy) and contacting Ayman Zawahri was an
assignment of Issam Haddad by Obama in person on 28
December 2012, he was at the White House in a
meeting with the CIA, he says in his confessions
when interrogated by the public prosecution in the
- How did you get it?
Nabeel Naiem: These
public prosecution confessions are published and are
available.. Obama entered (the meeting room) and
gave the CIA team a paper and left, they read it and
told him: itís required by the Muslim Brotherhood to
contain the radical groups in the region starting
with Hamas & Al-Qaeda, so he called Ayman Zawahri
through Rifaía Tahtawi, head of presidential court,
who happens to be Aymanís cousin from Rifaía
(Zawahri) talking to Mohammad Morsi and Morsi says
to him: Peace be Upon You Emir (Prince) of
Believers, we need your people here in Sinai, and I
will provide them with expenses, food and water and
prevent security from pursuing them..
recorded and sent to the public prosecutor and this
is what Mohammad Morsi is being tried for.
If you ask how
I got to know this? I was in Channel 2 of Egyptian
TV, and with me was General Gamal, 1st secretary of
Egyptian Intelligence, who recorded the call and
written it down and based on it the memo was written
and handed to the Public Prosecutor.
presenter asked him: Is it allowed for the
Intelligence Services to tap the telephone of the
president of the republic?
Iím not tapping the presidentís phone, I was tapping
Aymanís (Zawahri) phone and found the president
talking to him, telling him Peace be Upon You Emir
of Believers, so I wrote down the tape, wrote a
report and submitted to the head of intelligence..
She asked him:
Did you inform the president? He replied: Itís not
my job, I do not deal with the president (directly),
I deal with the head of intelligence and thatís my
She asked him:
What did you write in your investigations and your
own report, what did you write after you wrote down
the tape (contents)?
I swear to God
he told her, & I was in the same studio,: I wrote
that Mr. Mohammad Morsi Ayyat president of the
republic is a danger for Egyptís National Security.
ignorant should know why the army stood by the side
of the people on 30 June, because the president is
dealing with Al-Qaeda organization, and itís
recorded, and heís being on trial for it now, and
head of intelligence wrote that the president of the
republic is a danger on Egyptís National Security.
This is the
task of these groups in the region. When Obama said
he supported Morsiís campaign with 50 million
(Dollars), and when (Yousuf) Qaradawi said: Obama
sent us 60 million Dollars for the Syrian
ĎResistanceí, God bless you Obama, and we need
convert to Islam or America became a Hijabi (wore a
Qaradawi: When Obama supports the Syrian opposition,
is it to establish the Caliphate? And return the
days of the Rashideen Caliphates? Or Obama converted
to Islam or America became a Hijabi to support the
This is the
work of agents (spies), exposed and debunked, and we
donít want to fool ourselves and hide our heads in
the sand, the region is under a conspiracy and itís
to drag Iran to a war of attrition..
statement ISIS announced after the fight with Maliki
it said: ĎWe will head to Najaf & Karballa and
destroy the sacred shrinesí, they dragged the legs
of Iran (into Iraq).
theyíll defend the sacred shrines, it has to, it
cannot (not defend them), this is whatís required,
to clash Saudi and Iran in the 100 years war, an
endless war, it exhausts Saudi resources and its
monies, and it exhausts Iran resources and its
monies, like what they did during the days of Saddam
in Iraq (with Iran). This is what we should
understand, fight and stand against..
- You mentioned
Egypt, Syria and Iraq, we see in all of it similar
activities, and you also mentioned Saudi, is it in a
coming phase Saudi will be targeted?
Nabeel Naiem: It was
meant when Muslim Brotherhood lay their ground in
ruling Egypt, problems would start in Saudi in 2016
and in the whole Gulf (GCC), this is not my words,
this what the head of national security in United
Arab Emirates Dhahi Khalfan said, he arrested those
From where did
Dhahi Khalfan get this? They arrested cells which
confessed in details: If Muslim Brotherhood settles
in Egypt, theyíll start exporting problems to the
Gulf (GCC) through their existing cells, and
destabilize the security of the Gulf, and this is
what Dhahi Khalfan, head of national security in UAE
said, not what I say.
- The circumstances
and factors we saw in Cairo, Damascus and Baghdad,
in the countries: Syria, Egypt and Iraq, there was a
security vacuum and repercussions of so called Arab
Spring, what vacuum we are talking about in Saudi
Arabia? Where to find the circumstances and factors
that would allow these organizations to enter the
(Saudi) kingdom? Opening gaps? Where?
Nabeel Naiem: Look,
they have a book being circulated in London titled
The Rule of Al Saud, in this book they called the
Saudi family as Kuffar (infidels), and that it is
unjust, and it steals the monies of the Saudis, and
itís an infidel doesnít rule by Godís commands, and
only applies Sharia law on the weak while the strong
and the princess no law being applied on them, a
book to educate the Saudi youths abroad to fight a
war against the Saudi government, they also say: we
call on the kingdom to become a constitutional
monarchy, ie. the king doesnít rule, like the
British queen, and this trend is being supported by
America and Britain and the people working on this
are residing in London, the nest of spies, all the
spies of the world reside in London..
Their goal is
to divide the region in order to achieve Israelís
Israel is a
weak and despicable state, by the way, geopolitical,
Israel is not a state, like Qatar, is Qatar a state?
Qatar is only a tent and a man sitting it with his
money and thatís it..
countries like Iran, Saudi and Egypt, in geography
it exists until the end of times, and there are
countries called the Satanic Shrubs, itís just found
you donít know how, like Israel and Qatar, it can
vanish in one day and you wonít find it..
So for Israel
to guarantee its existence, all the surrounding
entities around it should be shredded.. Kurds to
take one piece, Sunnah take one piece, Maliki takes
one piece.. each sect has their own piece just like
Lebanon they keep fighting between each other, once
they finish beating each other they drink tea then
go for a second round beating each other..
- I want to get back
to the factors in regards with the Saudi Kingdom,
you mentioned what is planned for based on this
ideology, and you know better, you have experience
and you talk about examples and evidences, but how
they will enter?
True there was
a statement by the Saudi ministry of interior in
last May claiming they dismantled a cell that
follows ISIS of 62 members, as they stated, but how
theyíll enter (Saudi), what are the factors theyíll
be depending on to enter?
Nabeel Naiem: Iím
telling you they are preparing for the revolution
against the ruling family, that itís a corrupt
family, this family steals the money of the Saudis,
talks about the roots of the family..
- From inside the
Nabeel Naiem: From
inside the kingdom, and there are strong Takfiri
members inside the kingdom, because as you know the
difference beteween Wahhabi and Takfiri ideologies
is as thin as a single hair, thus there are a lot of
youths who follow this (Takfiri) ideology, add to it
the feeding against the kingdom and its government
and against the ruling family, itís very easy for
him to blow himself up with anything..
- So it will be only
based on these factors, we donít want to disregard
an important point that groups of the ISIS are from
the Gulf countries, and there are reports that the
(governments of GCC) are turning a blind eye away
from recruiting a number of them and sending them to
fight in Syria and in a number of other countries
including Iraq, as per these reports, could there be
recruiting to use inside the kingdom? To move inside
Nabeel Naiem: Yes,
yes, most are Saudis & the move will be like that
but they were hoping for the Muslim Brotherhood
government in Egypt to settle in power, thatís why
when (Saudi) king Abdallah supported the 30 June
revolution (in Egypt), he did so based on the
information he has of what will happen in the region
Why did he
stand against the Muslim Brotherhood? Saudi was
always containing the MBs, and if the MBs (Muslim
Brotherhood) ever made money, it was from Saudi, and
Mohammad Qotb, the father of all Takfir in the
world, spent 40 years of his life in Saudi, he wrote
a book called The Ignorance in the Twentieth
Century, and he claims weíre living in an ignorance
more than the one in the days of the prophet PBuH,
and Saudi hosted him and he was teaching in the
university.. What made them go against them (MBs)?
Muslim Brotherhood have no religion, no nation, not
safe to be with them, theyíll betray anyone.
- On the other hand,
how to deal with such an organization and such an
Nabeel Naiem: The
voices of the Islamic moderation very low, throaty,
so to speak..
- We do not hear that
loud voice who would stand against them, is it not
convincing? Or need mediums?
Nabeel Naiem: No, the
sapien voice doesnít have a vim, theyíre employees,
theyíd say let ISIS burn out with who brought it..
have the vim to respond, doesnít feel the danger,
secondly, Azhar in Egypt, which was leading the
movement of religious enlightenment, is absented for
the past 40 years, the reason for its absent for 40
years is the oil boom, and the voices of the Saudi
clergy becoming higher than the Azhar clergy.
Salafism was found in Egypt just to fight Azhar
(Islamic University), then, the scholars duty is to
respond to the ideology of ISIS, detail it and
respond to it, scholars should come and say this is
what ISIS is saying and the right respond is this..
and I sat with people who came from London to fight
in Syria, they sat with me and thanks to God they
went from Egypt back to London.
They came to
ask me, and I told them, letís assume that Bashar
(Assad) died in the morning, would I be saying: Why
God did you take Bashar while the war is not over
yet? Who will replace Bashar?
I said: Jarba
is worth of Bashar shoes only.. They said: true. And
they went back.
I told them
you are going to fight in favor of America and
Israel, will you be the one to rule Syria?
If you were
the one who will rule Syria I will come and fight on
your side, I swear by God Iíll come and fight on
But are you
going to rule Syria after Bashar? He said no, I told
him you are being used to remove Bashar and then
Jarba, Salim Idress, Issam Hattito will come, all of
those are being raised in the spy nest in London,
itís not you who will rule.
- How can we
differentiate between religious commitment and the
national responsibility? Is there a problem in
Nabeel Naiem: Yes,
yes, of course, there is a strong fault between the
national responsibility and the religious
commitment. Iíll tell you what the General Guide
(leader) of (Muslim) Brotherhood said? He said Toz
(B.S.) with Egypt. This is their vision of the
And when the
MBs ruled Egypt.. Iíll give you one evidence for
their despise to the nation (Egypt), in the last
interview done by the Consular Adli Mansour, the
interim president of Egypt with Mrs. Lamis Hadidi,
the last question she asked him was about the
background picture of the map of Egypt behind him,
she asked him to tell her the story about this
picture behind him..
He said: this
picture was done by King Fouad a 100 years ago, we
know that first was King Fouad, then King Farouq
then Abdul Nasser, Sadat then Mubarak. He told her
since King Fouad did this photo a 100 years ago and
itís hanged there, it was removed for 1 year only,
when the Muslim Brotherhood ruled Egypt. They
removed it and put in the stores..
And they were
working on a plot to concede 600 square kilometers
to Hamas to resolve the Palestinian cause..
There is a
link between the national responsibility and the
religious commitment, and this contradicts with the
understanding of the Salafists clerics, and Iíll
tell you the political theory of imam Ibn Taymiyyah,
who people consider him the most strict imam, Ibn
Taymiyyah was asked: if the nationís interest
conflicts with applying Sharia, if we apply Sharia
will lose the country, what to do?
Maintaining the homeland is a priority over applying
Sharia, because if you lose the country, where will
you apply Sharia?
Iíll give you
an example to make it clearer, if someone is naked
and will fall from the 10th floor, will you rescue
him or get him something to wear?
preserve the country is more important than to apply
Sharia if thereís interest conflict.
- And the interest
Nabeel Naiem: To
preserve the nation.
- And in fact this is
the most absented side between the politics, we
called the national responsibility and..
Nabeel Naiem: This is
because of ignorance, not knowing whatís the
national responsibility, thereís no conflict between
national responsibility and religious commitment,
itís because those are ignorants the conflict is
happening between the nation and the belief.
- This topic needs
more discussing, especially in regards with the
relations with regional countries, western
countries, in regards with the nature of these
countries, its backgrounds and its beliefs, we see
relations are allowed with India and China, and when
we talk about countries like Iran then the religious
backgrounds are mentioned and this also might
require further research if possible we can get a
comment from you on it?
Nabeel Naiem: What I
want to tell you, the efforts of all Islamic
countries, Sunnah and Shiites, must combine, to
eradicate these groups, because these groups are the
claws of colonialism in the region, itís not on
religious bases, there are members of ISIS who do
not pray, so in Al-Qaeda, there are members who
didnít pray a single kneeling, there must be a
combination of the countries efforts to organically
eliminate these groups by security and by intellect,
disprove their ideology..
There must be
a response to these groups and explaining its
ideology is a stray ideology, contrary to the
Islamic Sharia, and this is the ideology that the
prophet warned from when he said about Khawarij
(Outlaws in Islam):
ĎNewly in the
religion, ribald in their aims, they go through the
religion like how an arrow goes through the bow, if
I meet them I will kill them the way Iram and Aíad
were killed, theyíre the worse killers under the
skies, blessed who they kill or who kills of them..í
and he called them: Ďthe dogs of hell.í
- Thank you a lot
sheikh Nabil Naiem, our guest here in the studio,
founder of Jihad Organization formerly, and expert
in the Islamist groups. Ė
end of interview.
kept saying: ĎThey fool you, they keep fooling
you and they enjoy fooling you, not because theyíre
smart, but because youíre foolableĎ, so I
repeat it once again.
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